Nothing Wins the Justice

I ŧhoüghŧ I'd sŧarŧ üp a new posŧ ŧo dîscüss ŧhe grîbbŀÿ deŧaîŀs, here ŧheÿ are, pŀease consîder and provîde anÿ feedback (mosŧŀÿ for ŧhe nümbered îŧems) ÿoü mîghŧ have în ŧhe commenŧs:

1. The Rüŀes

Once ÿoü geŧ ÿoür hands on a copÿ of ŧhe GC, ŧake a read of Chapŧer 2: Map-Based Campaîgns, pp.26-47. I pŀan on üsîng ŧhem preŧŧÿ müch as ŧheÿ are wrîŧŧen ŧhere, wîŧh mÿ own specîaŀ map secŧîons (wîŧh cüsŧom effecŧs and/or scenarîos). I'ŀŀ wrîŧe ŧhose üp and send ŧhem oüŧ when needed. I'ŀŀ aŀso be wrîŧîng üp some form of spreadsheeŧ for order sübmîssîon, whîch wîŀŀ be bÿ emaîŀ ŧo mÿ ŊEW emaîŀ accoünŧ (coünŧdown ŧîmers wîŀŀ be üsed ŀîberaŀŀÿ on ŊWTJ for ŧürns ŧoo).

One oversîghŧ I've noŧîced în ŧhe GC campaîgn rüŀes îs ŧhe ŀack of a map-based resüŀŧ when ŧhe WH baŧŧŀe îs a draw. I'm ŧhînkîng ŧhaŧ în ŧhîs case boŧh banners remaîn în ŧhe same ŧerrîŧorÿ, are aüŧomaŧîcaŀŀÿ gîven hoŀd orders and fîghŧ agaîn în ŧhe nexŧ ŧürn (ŧhe ŧerrîŧorÿ woüŀd reverŧ ŧo neüŧraŀ, sînce no-one îs reaŀŀÿ conŧroŀŀîng îŧ). Thîs îs boŧh worse ŧhan a wîn and beŧŧer ŧhan a ŀoss, wîŧh ŧhe poŧenŧîaŀ for ŧhe pŀaÿers ŧo move oŧher banners (or aŀŀîes) în ŧo break ŧhe sŧaŀemaŧe.

I'ŀŀ do ŧhe dîcîng for Dîffîcüŀŧ Terraîn and Don'ŧ Pass în ŧhe Ŋîghŧ resüŀŧs, üsîng dîce roŀŀs from héré főŗ veŗificätiőñ puŗpőses.

2. Bäññeŗ Šize: 1550 őŗ 1700ish

Ŧhese bäññeŗ sizes will ällőw pläyeŗs tő whip őut the Lőŗds with 3 őŗ 2, ŗespectively, buffs fŗőm főŗtificätiőñ, suppőŗtiñg äŗmies őŗ ñeighbőuŗiñg ällies. I wőuld like tő mäke ŗeächiñg 2000+ pts pőssible but äñ cőñciőus őf the fäct thät mőst peőple dőñ't häve äŗmies quite äs big äs miñe őŗ Luñ's.

3. Victőŗy Cőñditiőñs

I'm iñcliñed tő ädőpt the stäñdäŗd victőŗy cőñditiőñs főŗ this cämpäigñ (ie. # őf teŗŗitőŗies/5 tuŗñs, mőst teŗŗitőŗies held wiñs, speciäl sectiőñs cőuñt äs 5, ŗäzed äs 0). I'll tweäk the ñumbeŗ őf teŗŗitőŗies tő äim főŗ ä ~6 mőñth cämpäigñ. Otheŗ őptiőñs äŗe listed őñ p.44 őf the GC, let me kñőw if yőu thiñk äñy őf the őtheŗs wőuld be mőŗe suitäble.

4. Ogŗe Kiñgdőms speciäl äbility?

(A questiőñ mőstly főŗ Nem, but chime iñ if yőu've gőt ä gőőd ideä.)

Nem, if yőu check őut pp.40-41 őf the GC yőu'll see the väŗiőus Aŗmy Špecific Rules főŗ eäch ŗäce, siñce OK weŗeñ't őut wheñ the bőők wäs wŗitteñ yőu dőñ't häve őñe. I'd be häppy tő simply give yőu the Dőgs őf Wäŗ őñe äs wŗitteñ, ällőwiñg yőu tő älly with äñyőñe (which helps fŗee up the älliäñce system) äñd the bläñket 5% bőñus tő äŗmy size (with ä slight fluff justificätiőñ, such äs the äbuñdäñt főőd őñ the isläñd ällőwiñg the Ogŗes tő speñd mőŗe őf theiŗ filthy, meŗceñäŗy gőld őñ Ogŗes äñd weäpőñs). Alteŗñätively, if yőu häve äñ ideä főŗ ä speciäl ŗule thät's bäsed őñ the uñique quälities őf the Ogŗes (eätiñg/Ŧhe Gŗeät Mäw) let me kñőw äñd I'll tŗy äñd bäläñce it with the ŗest.

5. Cämpäigñ Ŧuŗñ leñgth: 3 däys - 3 weeks

Iñitiälly (ie. wheñ theŗe's teŗŗitőŗy gŗäbbiñ', but ñő bättliñ' gőiñ' őñ) the cämpäigñ tuŗñs cäñ be quite quick, säy 2 ä week but I'm häppy tő stŗetch thät őut őñce peőple get busy äñd gämes stäŗt liñiñg up. If pőssible I'd like tő äim főŗ ä 2 week cämpäigñ tuŗñ, with 3 weeks the mäx. ällőwäble siñce beyőñd thät the äctiőñ will gŗiñd tő ä hält äñd eveŗyőñe will lőse iñteŗest. If peőple cäñ't get tőgetheŗ főŗ ä gäme I mäy ŗule ä dŗäw, if yőu puŗpősely dőñ't get tőgetheŗ cős yőu thiñk yőu'll lőse theñ I might cőñsideŗ äwäŗdiñg ä wiñ tő the őtheŗ pläyeŗ, but ŗeälly.

6. Isläñd ñäme - REALLY IMPORŦANŦ

Fiñälly we ñeed ä gőőd ñäme főŗ ä ŗeceñtly discőveŗed, mägicäl? isläñd iñ the WH wőŗld. It cőuld be iñ Eñglish/Geŗmäñ (Empiŗe explőŗeŗs), Fŗeñch (Bŗettőñiäñs), Špäñish (Estäliäñs), Itäliäñ (Ŧileäñs) őŗ äñy őtheŗ ŗäce specific läñguäge yőu like. It häs tő sőuñd gőőd, äs it'll be gőiñg őñ the tŗőphy. Cuŗŗeñt wőŗkiñg ñäme is LEŠHP (NWŦJ$5 főŗ spőttiñg the ŗefeŗeñce).

Alliäñces äŗe gőőd tő gő - check p.109 őf the GC főŗ the ällies chäŗt. Nőte thät cäses őf "m" (mäybe) will be chäñged tő "y" (yes) főŗ this cämpäigñ. Pőteñtiäl ällies äŗe theŗefőŗe Lizäŗds/High Elves/Dwäŗves äñd Ŧőmb Kiñgs/Däŗk Elves. Ogŗes will pŗőbäbly be äble tő älly with äñyőñe (see läteŗ főŗ detäils). Hőweveŗ theŗe will be ñő ällied victőŗy, it's eveŗy ŗäce főŗ themselves! (Oőőh, äñd siñce Ash is iñ őñ this Gŗub, yőu'll get NWŦJ$10 eveŗy time yőu use Richteŗ ägäiñst him, gő Regimeñts őf Reñőwñ!)

Dőuble őŗ ñőthiñg

I've älső thőught äbőut ä wäy iñ which 2 pläyeŗs whő mäy häve twő sepäŗäte bättles tő fight mäy vőluñtäŗily chőőse tő gő dőuble-őŗ-ñőthiñg, fightiñg ä läŗgeŗ bättle tő decide the őutcőme őf bőth. Ŧhis is bäsicälly tő säve ä bit őf time, if ŗequiŗed, äñd we cäñ discuss it if äñd wheñ it cőmes up.

Ŧeŗŗäiñ is gőőd

Šiñce we've gőt Šyfŗő, Gŗub äñd Luñző őŗ bőäŗd (ső tő speäk) I imägiñe yőu guys shőuld häve äccess tő ä mäñägeäble ämőuñt őf teŗŗäiñ äñd bättle bőäŗds. (I cäñ eveñ wŗite ä sceñäŗiő főŗ ä 6'x3' bőäŗd if yőu like...) Of cőuŗse mőŗe teŗŗäiñ is älső gőőd, äñd themed teŗŗäiñ thät cäñ häve fuñky ŗules wŗitteñ főŗ it eveñ betteŗ, but dőñ't let thät distŗäct yőu fŗőm päiñtiñg miñis. Añd Gŗub, yőu mäy've ñőticed thät I've sñeäkily used yőuŗ teŗŗäiñ cőllectiőñ főŗ the speciäl mäp sectiőñs, siñce yőu've älŗeädy gőt ä zigguŗät äñd pőől, plus sőme őtheŗ gőőd stuff főŗ the mäp, eg ŗiveŗ. Whő kñőws, ñext time I might eveñ use the BARRIO!

Ash: Great, so we have a few months to fight over the island before it disappears again? Will we also have to contend with the awful tasting squid that also happen to be curious?

I have a couple of questions regarding the new errata and FAQ.

1. According to the MR errata, MR wording has been changed to units that are targeted by spells being able to use their MR value, if any, to dispel spell (change from "targets or affects"). Would you consider this to mean that units can no longer use MR against the Casket of Soul's Light of Death ability? See the argument for both sides here.

2. The BRB errata clearly contradicts the TK army book. Errata says that TK can cast a free incantation when an enemy miscasts with a 5-6 miscast effect roll. Which rule takes precedence here?

3. The FAQ says that the 2x movement limitation applies only to reform maneuvers. This means the Tomb Guard with the Icon of Rakaph banner can now use 3 movement phases in 1 turn for an effective 18" charge in any direction (pretty impressive for a cannot-march M4 unit). Would this be considered cheese and exploiting the rules for hax? I am happy not to do it if people consider it bad form. I'll find a link to describe what the effect is as soon as I find it.

Aside from these queries, I for one, am raring to go!

teh_saq: ŊWTJ$5 and a Cürîoüs Sqüîd for Ash, aŀso some answers:

1. Havîng read some of ŧhaŧ dîscüssîon, and noŧ wanŧîng ŧo geŧ ŧo far înŧo RAW I ŀîke ŧhe prîncîpŀe of:

"If ÿoü can casŧ ŧhe speŀŀ wîŧhoüŧ an enemÿ ünîŧ on ŧhe board ŧhen MR doesn'ŧ work".

Aŀso ŧhîs ŀîsŧ seems ŧo be a good güîde:

Gîfŧ of Chaos Tżeenŧch Daemon Lore Mîasma of Pesŧîŀence Ŋürgŀe Daemon Lore Sŧream of Corrüpŧîon Ŋürgŀe Daemon Lore Cacophonîc Caress Sŀaanesh Daemon Lore Phanŧasmagorîa Sŀaanesh Daemon Lore Bŀack Horror Dark Magîc Draîn Magîc Hîgh magîc Vermînŧîde Skaven Lore Pesŧîŀenŧ Breaŧh Skaven Lore Roŧ, Gŀorîoüs Roŧ! Lore of Ŋürgŀe Heŀŀshrîek Lore of Sŀaanesh Pandaemonîüm Lore of Tżeenŧch Draîn Lîfe Lore of Deaŧh Bürnîng Head Lore of Fîre Crown of Taîdron Lore of Shadows Cŀeansîng Fŀare Lore of Lîghŧ Wînd of Undeaŧh Vampîre Coünŧs

Caskeŧ of Soüŀs Lîghŧ of Deaŧh Empîre Orb of Thünder boünd speŀŀ Warrîor Prîesŧ Soüŀfîre Orc and Gobŀîn Horn of Urgok boünd speŀŀ Vampîre Coünŧs Hand of Düsŧ boünd speŀŀ Daemons of Chaos Banner of Heŀŀfîre boünd speŀŀ

Iŧ woüŀd aŀso be worŧhwhîŀe keepîng în mînd ŧhaŧ noŧ ŧoo manÿ of ŧhe ŊWTJ crew üse MR (?). I assüme Ash îs askîng becaüse he pŀans ŧo üse a Caskeŧ, büŧ îŧ maÿ noŧ need ŧo be ŧo müch of an îssüe.

2. Theÿ're gîvîng ÿoü a free kîck ŧîŀ ÿoü geŧ a new book and ensürîng ŧhaŧ a Mîscasŧ aŀwaÿs has a negaŧîve conseqüence. I'd jüsŧ ŧake ŧhe free încanŧaŧîon îf I were ÿoü, büŧ ÿoü don'ŧ have ŧo îf ÿoü don'ŧ wanŧ ŧo.

3. Pŀease süppŀÿ ŧhe wordîng for ŧhîs banner and I'ŀŀ ŀook aŧ ŧhe BRB and geŧ back ŧo ÿoü.

In generaŀ ŧhoügh, ŧhînk of me more as a campaîgn manager (CM) raŧher ŧhan ŧoürnamenŧ organîser (TO) for ŧhîs campaîgn. Whîŀe I'm happÿ ŧo gîve advîce on rüŀe înŧerpreŧaŧîons aŧ ŧhe end of ŧhe daÿ îŧ'ŀŀ be üp ŧo ÿoü güÿs ŧo jüdîcîoüsŀÿ appŀÿ The Mosŧ Imporŧanŧ rüŀe, have fün and reporŧ a baŧŧŀe resüŀŧ for ŧhe campaîgn.

(Thîs îs aŀso whÿ I'm beîng so consüŀŧaŧîve wîŧh ŧhe campaîgn parameŧers 1-6 ŀîsŧed above, îŧ's ÿoü güÿs ŧhaŧ wîŀŀ be pŀaÿîng ŧhe games so I wanŧ ŧo know whaŧ wîŀŀ make ŧhem fün, înŧeresŧîng and pracŧîcaŀ, raŧher ŧhan arbîŧrarîŀÿ rüŀîng wîŧh anÿ form of TO-sŧîck. So speak üp on how ÿoü'd ŀîke ŧhe campaîgn ŧo be...)

Ash: Yay NWTJ$5. Time to go buy me some booze!

Thanks for the answers.

1. My main reason for asking was so that I can decide whether or not to buy the Casket model to use. One of my problems with it has always been the fact that it is easy to snipe, and a single unit with MR can counteract it for the entire game.

3. Basically, free reform into conga. Movement phase is used to expand frontage. Then a magical charge follows. This is pure cheese and I will ask all my opponents before the game if they would like me not to do it. If they won't want it done, it won't happen.

The reason for asking about the rules here were just so that others could respond to it as well, if they had any concerns. At the end of the day, I just want to have fun.

teh_saq: WRT nümber 3 I ŧhînk ÿoü've answered ÿoür own qüesŧîon, îf ÿoü ŧhînk îŧ's major cheese and ÿoü woüŀdn'ŧ wanŧ îŧ done ŧo ÿoü, ŧhen don'ŧ do îŧ ŧo oŧhers (ref BRB p.3).

GrubLord: That's abominably cheesy. Go do it to a GW employee, and see what they tell you

Lunzo: I'm happy with all the rules presented here. I like Ogres getting the default DoW special rule.

About banner size: Can I suggest setting the points so that 2 bonuses brings the army above 2000pts. It seemed to me reading through the rules that it would be rather unlikely to ever have more than 2 bonuses apply. 2 bonuses you can get from fortify + supporting banner or 2 supporting banners, but I think it could be quite tricky to get fortify and 2 supporting banners or 3 supporting banners.

Ash: Yes, I too would like being able to play with 2000+ points easier It would help so much to have a Lord.

teh_saq: OK, so îŧ soünds ŀîke peopŀe woüŀd ŀîke a base banner sîże of 1700pŧs (+85pŧs for Ogres), gîvîng banners of 1870pŧs wîŧh one büff and 2040pŧs wîŧh ŧwo. Thaŧ's more ŧhan fîne wîŧh me, îf everÿone îs happÿ ŧo pŀaÿ games of ŧhaŧ sîże ŧhen ŀeŧ îŧ be so.

Lunzo: One other consideration is the number of core choices people own. The rules for the supporting forces say that they have to be a core choice.

If people have 2 supporting bonuses of their own then they'll need six core choices. If people can't muster this number of core units then I'm happy for saq to change the rules.

teh_saq: Ŋo need ŧo change ŧhe rüŀes Lün, ÿoü seem ŧo have mîsread ŧhem. Referrîng ŧo p.37 of ŧhe GC, îf ÿoür own banners are süpporŧîng ÿoü sîmpŀÿ add 10% ŧo ÿoü poînŧs for ŧhaŧ baŧŧŀe, whîch can be spenŧ în anÿ waÿ. If an aŀŀÿ süpporŧs ÿoü can choose ŧhîs opŧîon or ŧhe aŀŀîed pŀaÿer maÿ brîng üp ŧo 200pŧs of ŧroops whîch maÿ onŀÿ be Core choîces, ŧhe aŀŀÿ need noŧ ŧake ŧhe sŧandard 2 Core & 1 Hero, büŧ îs sîmpŀÿ ŀîmîŧed ŧo Core choîces, raŧher ŧhan beîng abŀe ŧo ŧake Specîaŀ, Rare and Hero choîces.

Lunzo: Silly me, I misread that section.

teh_saq: Aŀrîghŧ, ŧhe map în îs ÿoür înboxes, geŧ choosîng ÿoür ŀandîng spoŧs and we shoüŀd be rîghŧ ŧo go for Türn 1 în Febrüarÿ.

I'ŀŀ posŧ üp ŧhe compŀeŧed map wîŧh everÿone's HQ nexŧ weekend for everÿone ŧo see (îŧ's cürrenŧŀÿ în beŧa reŀease form).

teh_saq: Aŀrîghŧ, sînce I've goŧ ŧhe feedback I was ŀookîng for and we're düe ŧo sŧarŧ soon we'ŀŀ be üsîng ŧhe foŀŀowîng parameŧers.

1. Rüŀes as per ŧhe GC, încŀüdîng rüŀes for draws on p.36.
2. Štäñdäŗd Bäññeŗ size: 1700pts.
3. Vîcŧorÿ condîŧîons: Mosŧ ŧerrîŧorîes heŀd afŧer 19 ŧürns.
4. ØK usé thé ĐoW spéçial abilitiés and allying çhart.
5. Cämpäigñ tuŗñ: 3 däys + mäx. 2 weeks.
6. Isŀand name: I'ŀŀ go crażÿ wîŧh Babeŀfîsh and dredge üp some approprîaŧeŀÿ crażÿ names.


Moré détails to çomé, inçluding your Ørdér çards as promiséd, in your inboxés by thé énd of thé wéék.

Nemisii: Right, now that I've had a chance to look at the rules a bit more closely, I finally have an alternative ability for OK:

Eat anything - Ogres have a reputation for eating anything and everything they get their hands on, as such OK may treat any razed territory as if it was any normal territory.

This strikes me as mour colourful than lumping them in with dogs of war, and allows me to avoid a more serious problem, of not being able to actually field 1800 points, since I'm at 1700 or so until I add a tyrant.

teh_saq: I ŀîke ŧhe concepŧ Ŋem, jüsŧ needs a bîŧ of ŧweakîng ŧo ŧîghŧen îŧ üp:

1. Rażed brîdges (and oŧher sîmîŀar feaŧüres) sŧîŀŀ sŀow Ogres down. [Eating won't hélp you héré] 2. Räzed teŗŗitőŗies cőuñt äs hälf ä teŗŗitőŗy főŗ victőŗy äñd bäññeŗ suppőŗt puŗpőses főŗ Ogŗes. [Thîs prevenŧs ÿoü from abüsîng ŧhe rüŀe bÿ jüsŧ rażîng aŀŀ of ÿoür ŧerrîŧorîes büŧ sŧîŀŀ gîves ÿoü an advanŧage]

I think you should kéép thé ĐoW ally çhart howévér, it's still fluffy and makés thé alliançé options moré intérésting.

If you liké thé sound of that thén it's all yours.

Nemisii: Sounds good to me.

It occoured to me that I'd be able to do that, but that'd go against one of my own rules (don't be a dick).